How low have you gone? Options

[gigem99]

In a recent thread, Manxman posted:

.... Have found myself on my feet with BG's as low as 30.

The only time paramedics have been called on me was when I was still conscious. The young EMT poked one finger and had a quizzical look on his face, and asked for another finger. When he was done, I asked what they read. He told me 16 on one hand and 18 on the other. I still don't know what kind of meter he had, because I think most of my meters won't register below 20.

The guy told me he had never talked to anyone that low - every one had been unconscious.

I was a little belligerent (which is why they were called). I was p*ssed at my wife for calling "help me, help me!", and somebody called 911! I just wanted them to leave, but I guess it was good I got the D-50. By the time I got to the hospital, I was so embarrassed, I couldn't stand it.

Tom

[Liz]

I was conscious and tested myself at 18, twice. I don't remember what meter(s) I used as it was awhile ago. One time I passed out at work and came to as I was being wheeled into the ER. I heard one of the paramedics say "She's up to 25" so I can't imagine what it was before that. I'm guessing there was no way they could have even gotten a number when they first arrived on the scene, which I don't remember.

[Manxman]

I was a little belligerent (which is why they were called). I was p*ssed at my wife for calling "help me, help me!", and somebody called 911! I just wanted them to leave, but I guess it was good I got the D-50. By the time I got to the hospital, I was so embarrassed, I couldn't stand it.

Tom

It's interesting that you bring up the effects on emotional stability of low BG. I went to jail as a result of my first physical fight in the 8th. grade. The kid that I fought with went to the hospital and lost an eye from his injuries (broken cheek bone punctured the eye). Paramedics were called to the jail to treat the "drunk kid" and used intraveinous glucose to bring me around.

I fought the kid because the 1/2 brick that he threw at me missed, and broke the collar bone of the girl that I had been talking with. Her parents paid for the lawyer who defended me in the eventual law suit over the other kid's injuries. I won. No criminal record. After my first punch, I did not remember anything. If two adult teachers had not pulled me away, I probably would have killed the guy who threw the brick- our animosity had existed for several years.

I had previously been known as the shyest kid in school. Fighting both drunks and Diabetics can be dangerous because of low pain sensitivity and abnormal emotional control.

My wife, an RN, knows that belligerence can be expected when my BG is low, but usually it is in reaction to her trying to "take control" of the situation that I am aware of and am already working to correct. My usual treatment is 4 glucose tabs (16 gm. carbs) and she still tries to make me drink juice, honey, or whatever. 16 grams of carbs. and some peace and quiet does the trick for me. For me, it takes at least 30 minutes to return to normal, and more than 16 gms. of glucose just pushes me to far in the wrong BG direction.

[ncpumper]

I have gone under 50 once. 36 is my lowest so far and I hope that doesn't happen again. been keeping the glucose tabs in my pocket at all times. Can't imagine going anywhere without them on me.
I have to be extremely anal about checking my levels at work. My job is SOOOO dangerous working on the RR. I shoot for 120-150 levels while working.
Been averaging 10 sticks in 8 hrs at work. Be really glad to get outfitted with cgms, its in the works just a couple weeks out.

As far as low symptoms go, I have experienced: sweating, shakiness, feeling hot, dizziness and a state of confusion? Does anyone have different symptoms with lows?

[Manxman]

Occasionally during a low, my eyes will jitter as if I am seeing through a camera lens with a shutter snapping open and closed several times per second. This happens if I have been ignoring earlier symptoms while concentrating on a complicated physical task- car mechanical work, home repair, etc. Visual disturbances are fairly common, I believe, but your other symptoms are the usual ones that happen before the visual problems. The "shakiness" used to be accompanied by a ravenous hunger in my earlier days. It was my unfortunate tendency to over eat, which caused the opposite problem.

[ncpumper]

I guess I'll add the eye jitters to the list of possible low symptoms. I get those only when extremely sleep deprived now (eye jitters)

Thanks!

[Dave_]

In a recent thread, Manxman posted:


The only time paramedics have been called on me was when I was still conscious. The young EMT poked one finger and had a quizzical look on his face, and asked for another finger. When he was done, I asked what they read. He told me 16 on one hand and 18 on the other. I still don't know what kind of meter he had, because I think most of my meters won't register below 20.

The guy told me he had never talked to anyone that low - every one had been unconscious.


Tom

I've been that low, also. and I didn't pass out.

[Beowulf]

I've been that low, also. and I didn't pass out.

Yeah, the last time I crashed like that couldn't even grab the poker to draw blood. My wife had to do it. It read LO. Which on my meter is less than 20. I ate 2 glucose tubes and 20 minutes later my BG read 23. Never did pass out. But I sure had no clue what the heck was going on! LOL

[Liz]

Occasionally during a low, my eyes will jitter as if I am seeing through a camera lens with a shutter snapping open and closed several times per second.

By "jitters", do you mean you're seeing flashing lights or is your vision alternating between dark/light? Or is it physical jitters? For the past coupld of weeks my eyes have been very twitchy, like my eyelid is having a spasm. It doesn't last long and I don't think it has anything to do with my BG. I'll have to try to remember to check my sensor graph next time it happens. It's annoying but doesn't affect my vision. I find myself placing a finger over the eyelid for a second to try and stop it.

[Dave_]

By "jitters", do you mean you're seeing flashing lights or is your vision alternating between dark/light? Or is it physical jitters? For the past coupld of weeks my eyes have been very twitchy, like my eyelid is having a spasm. It doesn't last long and I don't think it has anything to do with my BG. I'll have to try to remember to check my sensor graph next time it happens. It's annoying but doesn't affect my vision. I find myself placing a finger over the eyelid for a second to try and stop it.

when moderately low, I get blue "speckles" in my vision. At lower levels I get central vision blindness (like a flash went off, but it only blocks about 20% of my field of vision).

[karen]

My meter measures all the way down to 10. And below that it just produces a LO result. I have resulted these measures when checking and still been able to get my own glucose tablets and not needed assistance.

[Liz]

when moderately low, I get blue "speckles" in my vision. At lower levels I get central vision blindness (like a flash went off, but it only blocks about 20% of my field of vision).

Before I got the pump, crazy vision was a symptom of being low but it happened as such a low number my brain was pretty much numb by that point and I couldn't associate blurry/black vision with a low BG. I'd just squint at whatever I was reading even harder and get angry that I couldn't make it out. Every once in awhile something would click and I'd test and/or eat something. Usually I'd just pass out. My BG doesn't drop low like that anymore and I haven't experienced any vision symptoms since.

[Manxman]

Yep, as your IQ dwindles away, you get PO'd at yourself and anyone or any thing, and you yell internally "Concentrate, damnit!!". Eventually a little bell goes off in your head and you say "Oh yeah, I'm getting drifty- better test". In the days before meters when I couldn't focus, I just ATE automatically (and too much by today's guidelines). Never gained weight though. That's the aspect of the old days that I would like to transplant into today's status- eat anything and never gain a pound.

[Dave_]

Yep, as your IQ dwindles away, you get PO'd at yourself and anyone or any thing, and you yell internally "Concentrate, damnit!!". Eventually a little bell goes off in your head and you say "Oh yeah, I'm getting drifty- better test". In the days before meters when I couldn't focus, I just ATE automatically (and too much by today's guidelines). Never gained weight though. That's the aspect of the old days that I would like to transplant into today's status- eat anything and never gain a pound.

On MDI, I used to be so paranoid about my many daily hypos, that I would eat first and "ask questions later" (meaning test bg later). Now, I'm so much more laid back about being low because I know I can take care of it without keeling over, that I often keep working when I KNOW I'm low, because I just want to get stuff done, and besides, when I'm a bit low, I'm really productive! LOL! I do things much faster when I'm hovering around the hypo level.

[Manxman]

On MDI, I used to be so paranoid about my many daily hypos, that I would eat first and "ask questions later" (meaning test bg later). Now, I'm so much more laid back about being low because I know I can take care of it without keeling over, that I often keep working when I KNOW I'm low, because I just want to get stuff done, and besides, when I'm a bit low, I'm really productive! LOL! I do things much faster when I'm hovering around the hypo level.

Conversely, when I started MDI with Humalog, I was told to calculate the carbs to be consumed in a meal, and take the injection first. I said "sorry, no". Too much can happen suddenly that might prevent my actually eating the meal, or my appetite might be off and I can't finish it. At present, I only take insulin to cover what I actually consumed, and do so immediately after the meal. I haven't yet had to deal with a meal that was so leisurely that the insulin was dangerously delayed.

As a far-fetched illustration of my caution, imagine that you have taken the injection for a BIG meal, and before the first bite, the Loma Prieta earthquake hits and your chimney falls through the roof into your living room. Are you going to just sit there to stuff down your BIG dinner as fast as you can before getting the hell out of danger? Nope. Don't laugh- this happened to me during the quake. Fortunately, I wasn't using Humalog because it wasn't available yet, and hadn't taken any insuln before the dinner that I never got to eat anyway. Delaying insulin too long after eating is not as dangerous as delaying food too long after the injection.

Of course, this is all beside the point when you use a pump. Yippee!

This post has been edited by Manxman: Apr 12 2010, 10:16 PM

[GA Hiker]

Delaying insulin too long after eating is not as dangerous as delaying food too long after the injection.

Of course, this is all beside the point when you use a pump. Yippee!

Why is delaying food too long after the bolus beside the point with a pump? If the quake hits after you bolus and before you eat, you're in the same predicament whether the bolus was with a syringe or a pump. Yes, you can stop the basal, but that's not going to help fast enough.

[Dave_]

Why is delaying food too long after the bolus beside the point with a pump? If the quake hits after you bolus and before you eat, you're in the same predicament whether the bolus was with a syringe or a pump. Yes, you can stop the basal, but that's not going to help fast enough.

LOL! I've been living in CA since 1970. Earthquakes are least of my worries. Seriously. Can we give a USEFUL example, such as going to a restaurant and bolusing before the meal arrives? I don't do that, because sometimes meals are late getting to the table, or they have to be sent back because they got the order wrong, or the food wasn't prepared correctly. When I go out to eat, I take a small bolus to cover salad, bread, etc and take the main bolus after I see that my meal is in front of me and "correct". I don't have issues with going high, by doing that, as long as I got the carb count correct, and if I didn't, my bg will be high now matter if I bolused when I order, or when I see the meal in front of me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Dave_: Apr 12 2010, 10:46 PM

[Manxman]

Why is delaying food too long after the bolus beside the point with a pump? If the quake hits after you bolus and before you eat, you're in the same predicament whether the bolus was with a syringe or a pump. Yes, you can stop the basal, but that's not going to help fast enough.

I meant that neither circumstance needs to happen with a practiced pump user. I still intend to program and initiate boluses after a meal. This may not give me the optimal results, but will prevent disasters. This is my view now- it may change once I get some experience.

[Manxman]

LOL! I've been living in CA since 1970. Earthquakes are least of my worries. Seriously. Can we give a USEFUL example, such as going to a restaurant and bolusing before the meal arrives?

I described my example as far-fetched, and do not believe that it deserves ridicule. Your example of waiting until a restaurant meal actually is in front of you is a much better practical example though.

I live in the mountains where anything at all can happen. Eight cars have crashed over the years in front of my house. A horse crashed its head through the windshield of my wife's minivan on her way to work in the dark. 60 pound redwood limbs have crashed through our roof. All of which required instant action.

I reject taking insulin before consuming a meal in all cases other than corrective doses to address highs. Again, that may change with my coming new experiences.

[Liz]

When I go out to eat, I take a small bolus to cover salad, bread, etc and take the main bolus after I see that my meal is in front of me and "correct". I don't have issues with going high, by doing that, as long as I got the carb count correct, and if I didn't, my bg will be high now matter if I bolused when I order, or when I see the meal in front of me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do the same thing, bolus when the salad or bread or appetizers are on the table and then again when the main meal is delivered. I can never get an accurate carb count for restaurant meals. They always contain more fat then you'd think and that adds to the problem. I do a dual wave for all restaurant meals. if I start to go low I cancel the rest of the square wave and will correct later if (more like when) my BG starts to go up.